I think the real question at hand here is exactly how early in 1964 these were available. I believe we all feel pretty confident that WH intended these to be a 1965 model year machine. No argument there. What is interesting is the fact that these appear to have been built much earlier in 1964 then recognized. I could easily see a few early production 1045's being used at Indy to showoff the new hood style. Free PR. Surprising though to see that they appear to have been available to the public so early in the year. Naturally they didn't make the transition to the new hood/fender setup over night and maybe this styling change was a far bigger deal then we are aware of. The Indy pics obviously don't show a high level of detail, but the machines look to be fully decaled and have the signature rubber in place. A close inspection only reveals 3 to 5 of these so they very well could have been strictly proto machines. I recall the proto for the first Wheel-a-matic was ONE 854 converted/built with the hydro tranny. The number of 1045's shown in the Indy pics doesn't necessarily indicate a huge fleet of consumer ready production machines. Brian's sales receipt, however, would seem to indicate that they were available far earlier then the fall of the year.

Bill, where exactly did you obtain the information regarding the time period that these machines were built? I think you need to revisit that source and double check this info.

You know, the wide wheeled round hood machines in those pics are interesting too. Can't make out any belt guard decals, but they are clearly round hoods with 1045 rubber. Wonder what the story is on those machines? Wish you could see them more clearly. I wonder if the 1045's started out life as a fleet of round hood machines and were then converted over?? We know the 241 doesn't clear the old hood style, so as pictured they would appear to be "854's". I have seen some 854's with the wide Terra style rears, but I've never seen them with the wide 1045 style front rubber.

The mysteries never cease.

Does anyone have this Indy pic that keeps getting brought up?

I'd like to see it

Pg 69 of "Straight From the Horses Mouth". Pgs 80-81 of the second edition. The pictures show approx 3-5 1045's in a lineup of tractors running in the 1964 Indy 2 1/2 held in conjunction with the Indy 500.

The race is MAY of each year, but we have been told these 1045's weren't produced until August of 1964. Your receipt and these pics tend to reveal that they were around/available much earlier.

An interesting mystery!

Hummmmmm all this over a year Im just goning to give my 1045 away to keep from getting in the middle of this Now lets go over the 754

Just trying to add to a thus far interesting, intelligent discussion. I find the how's and why's of the early model equipment quite facinating. Lets face it, we have the general history mapped out for us in a nice little book, but there is a plethora of intricate details invloving the actual tractors that tend to be left blank. The variations in models, attachments and even variations within the same model make this stuff quite fun to collect and investigate. Given the fact that specific info on many of the early tractors IS difficult to obtain, we are left to sort out the clues and sometimes make our own hypotheses. When we arrive upon contradicting info a flag pops up and makes you a little. Sort of like one of those kids mystery books, but for grown men who play with tractors.

This is good in depth tractor conversation and thats why I'm here.

Oh, and given the additional info that has turned up on the 754's I can't say I'm ready to let that one rest either.

The truth is, engineering changes and product decisions were made on an ongoing basis and this type of info is the REAL meat and potatoes stuff that I would love to hear about. Each model and variation was decided upon, built for a reason and at a specific time etc. Maybe I'm all alone in finding this stuff interesting.

Nope Dustin, you're not alone, and I have been following this thread closely for that reason as well. Collecting means different things to different folks. Yes, to some the little menial differences are insignificant and not worthy of time or discussion. I however agree with you that the minute details and the history-mystery of some things is what makes collecting interesting to me, as well as exciting and fun to learn about.

I will place a phone call to a direct source to see what new information might come up. I have always gone by what I was told by Toro/Wheel Horse on the 1045 BUT this receipt with a DATE ...... has me wondering.

What I would like to do is get a list of serial numbers of the known model 1045's to see if there might be more then the originaly thought 1,100 produced. Now so far from the three serial numbers posted in this thread from Henry, Brian and myself there not yet a indication of more being built ......... BUT.

Wild Bill in Richmond, Va.

NOW your talking my language Mr Pearson! I'll get you the serial number off of ours tomorrow when I can see the tractor better.

Tell your source to respond to my email about the 1046 as well. LOL

It certainly would be interesting to know how early these 1045's were available to the public. Given the info you were supplied with and the info we've gathered from Brians sales receipt as well as the April Indy showing something seems off a bit. We need to keep 'em honest right?

hey this is good stuff,,,

Where is the thread on the 754 I would love to read it....I cant get it to pull up in the search field

Not meaning to muddy things, just pointing out one known exception to this rule. The 1054A used cast spindle arms and had a decal for the serial number, no metal tag. And it was a 1965 model. There could easily have been other exceptions.

And it may interest some to know that the Ford Mustang in those Indy pics is what most call a 1964 1/2. (Front fender top crease runs out onto headlight door, chrome door lock knobs.). Ford called it a 1965 and they had 1965 V.I.N.s. That's how Ford was able to claim one million sold in it's first production year, which was actually 18 months long.

Toro calls the 1045 a 1964 model. Mike's book calls it a 1965. This receipt suggests strongly that the 1045 was on the market earlier than thought. The Indy pics have led some to suggest that it existed earlier than thought. BUT is there anything in the Indy pics to say the tractors in those pics were 1045s other than the hoods and tires? What engine was in them? Could they have been 854s fitted with prototype square hoods to guage public reaction?

Here's the link on the 754 thread:

http://whtractor.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=3511

Boy, I had to dig way back for that one.

I have a 1045 but no serial #. I can only assume it had the decal tag! With the dacal being placed directly under the gas tank could have contributed to its demise. Was the metal tag located in the same place? I have located another 1045 that I'm trying to acquire, but have not seen it close up. Saw it sitting on a guys front porch all disassembled and recognized the hood. He hasn't decided how much he wants for "pappy's old tractor". I think many more of these were produced than what was published. Consider this, How many do we know of?
1) Bell's
2)Brian's
3) Old and Red's
4) Bill's
5) Kelly's
6) Dustin's
7) Zeig had one he just sold
8)I have one
9) and trying to buy another
10) one just sold at the castleman auction

And I have pics of at least 6 different tractors known to still survive! For a tractor that is 43/44 years old and only 1,100 ever made... Sounds like a whole lot of these have survived quite well or there were a lot more made than what is in print! I'm going to go to a dealer friend of mine today. His father owned this dealer through all the sixty's. I'll see if I can find out anything


GREAT THREAD!!!!!!!!

Well Jim, From my best study of the Indy pics in the original printing I can make out the large, "narrow" big block S/G belt guard and the tractors also have the larger muffler. The muffler isn't conclusive, but the S/G guard makes me believe the front 3-5 machines aren't running a small block Kohler. It only appears to be a few of these machines pictured in the '64 pics with the majority being the also mysterious wide wheeled round hoods.

Interesting indeed. Hopefully Bill can aquire some additional info that will shed some light on all of this.

I'm real interested in this topic, I have 2 1045's I know of 3 more that are owned by non members of RS, and last I knew Tickster had one, One of mine the tag is missing, only the glue is left behind the other has been brush painted over, I have not tried to clean it yet, need to be very careful, and you can't just stick a square hood dash and hood on the stand, it's diff. the rear part of the dash tower is round hood, the upright part is square hood, they had to make the dash tower just for these tractors, I'm not sure when or why they were built, but I know they just didn't throw a bunch of spare parts together to make them, many are only used on that tractor, and a few carried over to the 1055, ie. belt guard, motor set up, frame, but the 1045' used the 64 steering set up, I personally think this is one of the coolest tractors I own, I hope to build one nice one out of the 2 that I have, then sell off what is left of the other, to help save another one.

Here is my serial number decal....



I'm with kelly.... this is one COOL machine!

I now have all of the parts I need.... I just need to get the "honey-do" list done, so I can get busy on it...